Thursday, January 11, 2007
Chapter 7
Choose one image/scene from this chapter and respond to it. Do not repeat anyone else's answer, but DO RESPOND to at least one other classmate's posting (please include their name) by defending, refuting, or qualifying what that classmate wrote. This means others should respond to what you wrote and you should respond to what others wrote. Brownie points for those who respond more than once.
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An image that stands out from chapter 7 was the image of the couple in a used car lot with their children. The salesmen linger like vicious sharks waiting to attack their vulnerable prey. The couples browsing demeanor is not compatible with that of the malevolent salesmen, for they complain of the precious time the leisurely couple is wasting. They devise a plan to “sock it to ‘em” by selling them a jalopy, an old and unpretentious automobile. The salesmen portray a villainous character and the unsuspecting family is the victim, who will be tricked by the devious salesmen into buying a tremendously overpriced motor vehicle.
The dusty, used cars themselves provide a real image. They are old, like the dust they are covered with, and just as the dust moves past, they will move on as well. Jessica Sheahon discussed how the salesmen were like sharks, and this is the same thing I thought. They were exploiting these poor people because they knew they had no choice. The salesmen, who are selfish enough to complain about the time the buyers take browsing enough, truly do fit a villainous form.
The image of the buisness the salespeople run was horrifying. With switching of tires pretend putting in sawdust to make it run better, pretending to have reliable cars when half wont last two hundred miles. The tricks the clerks put on honest people would scare anyone from shopping for cars.
"Piles of rusty ruins against the fence, rows of wrecks in back, fenders, grease-black wrecks, blocks lying on the ground and a pig weed growing up through the cylinders." ...It just goes to show you how much the salesmen car about money rather than the people that they are selling it to. They could car less whether they get killed because their car was unreliable. Like julia said, why would anyone want to shop for a car when they know that salesmen cheat you like that?
"Today's bargain--on the platform. Never sell it. Makes folks come in, though. If we sold that bargain at the price we'd hardly make a dime. Tell 'em it's jus' sold. Take out that yard battery before you make deliverly. Put in that dumb cell. Christ, what they want for six bits? Roll up your sleeves--pitch in. This ain's gonna last. If I had enough jalopies I'd retire in six months." The image of the salemen plotting and scheming with a twisted smile on his face comes to mind. This quote also qualifies Jessica's statement about the salesmen being sharks.
An image that struck me was the image of the lots, filled with signs. Signs screaming “Used Cars. Good Used Cars.” Their bright signs shriek at bewildered customers, who unwittingly believe their lies. Lots filled with lies and rusty cars. I agree with Jessica’s description of the salesmen as sharks with “small intent eyes watching for weakness”. The salesmen were like hawks, circling until they found someone with money who was gullible and desperate.
Molly said that the used sales men were like hawks, circling around waiting for a gullible person with money. This is very true. They were.
As Chapter 7 says, "Tire patch? Radiator cleaner? Spark intensifier? Drop this little pill in your gas tank and get ten extra miles to the gallon. Just paint it on--you got a new surface for fifty cents. Wipers, fan belts, gaskets? Maybe it's the valve. Get a new valve stem. What can you lose for a nickel?" In this passage, it seems that the car salesmen are trying to con people out of as much money as possible for their own personal benefit. It seems unreal that these salesmen would be so selfish as to attempt to ploy people into giving them nearly all of their savings; the salesmen obviously do not care a bit about the people themselves. However, it must be taken into consideration that during the Dust Bowl it seemed to be a dog-eat-dog world where people would do whatever they had to do just to get by.
The scene I chose to respond to was the scene where a man wants to trade two mules for a car. The man seems to be in great need of a car because he agrees to give his two mules and wagon for a car, even though the salesman only gives him twenty dollars for the two mules and the wagon. In return, the man has to give the salesman fifty dollars and he has to sign a contract which states that he will send ten dollars a month for four or five months. The salesman seems to be selling cars by the minute because he tells the man he could have made three sales if the man would not have wasted his time. It sounds like the salesperson only worry is money and does not care if he rips people off.
I agree with Julia because if I bought a car, I would not want people to be ripping me off like that. The way they did business was absolutely atrocious.
The scene i chose is one of many in which the salesmen make the buyer feel guilted into the purchase. "I'm given you my shirt, an' you took all this time. I might have made three sales while i been talkin' to you. I'm disgusted." Well...i'm disgusted honestly. These people are poor and desperate and should not be takin advantage of. The car salesmen are vicious animals when they should be caring human beings and help these people leave the desolate land to a place where they can hope to make a living.
i agree with kelly that:Following the sale of a car, for way more than its worth, the salesmen try to milk the buyer for more money by enticing them to buy extra parts. "Tire patch? Radiator cleaner? Spark intensifier? Drop this little pill in your gas tank and get ten extra miles to the gallon..." they are ruthless scoundrels and should be shot!
The image that caught my attention in chapter seven was the manipulation of women to deceive their husbands. "Watch the woman's face, if the woman likes it we can screw the old man." Frequently, women pay less attention to the ability of a car to function and more to its style and outward appearance, this is not to say that all women did this, or that they weren't intelligent, but the roles of women were drastically different during the dust bowl. However, this sales tactic shows that salesmen are willing to exploit marital bonds, perhaps all that these poor families had left in order to make a sale. I agree with Jordan, that salesmen also tried to use guilt as a sales tactic. This was ironic, it would make more sense for the salesmen to be empathetic towards the customer rather than vice versa, and it also ignores the basic rule of business- "the customer is always right." Molly made a great comment, that most people were deceived by bright luring posters, however some customers, such as the Joads were more cautious than the general public and weren't fooled by these. However, at the time, most were desperate, so the statement is still arguably true most of the time.
When the man comes into the lot with two mules and a wagon. The man wants to trade them in for a deduction in price.The salesman says that he might be able to pull off seven or ten dollars for the mules. The farmer agrees to receive 20 dollars for the mules and the wagon, pay another 50 up front, and he signed a contract for 40 more. After the farmer left the salesman claims he should be able to get about 75 for the team. This proves just how greedy the salespeople were during the time because they knew the farmers were desperate.
I agree with Sarah, the salesmen knew that even though the female had no social power, she had a great influence on everything else the family did.
I agree with Jessica Sheahon about the metaphor between the sharks and their prey. The author uses this situation to help us better understand the way the salesmen thought of their customers and planted an image in our mind that the average person is familiar with.
I got a kick out of when the salesmen says, "What you want is transportation, ain't it? No baloney for you. Sure the upholstery is shot. Seat cushions ain't turning no wheels over." Because the shape of the interior of the car was an outside indication of the problems the customer was sure to have with the inside of the car which does have to do with "turning no wheels over."
The image portrayed by the passage "A lot and a house large enough for a desk and chair and a blue book" is one that shows the extent of the single-mindedness for making a profit of the salesmen. Having a decently sized building on their car lot would not have made them more money, so they simply built a tiny shack that could only house a desk, chair, and blue sales book.
I defend Kelly Stroda’s position on the passage of “Tire patch? Radiator cleaner?…” because it really does show how little the salesmen cared for the customers, and how much the cared only for making a profit.
Kelly was right with her observation of while they did their best to cheat others they had to make a living, they had to survive. After all, it is only the survival of the fittest, or in this case the fastest talker.
As Kelly mentions, the Dust Bowl was a time for drastic actions if they ensured survival. The continuous references to 'jalopies' throughout the chapter crystallizes this concept of everyone doing what they can. Too often the salesmen are attacked as heartless sharks, but we forget in these attacks that the salesmen also have to stay alive. In the socratic circle on Friday, this point was discussed and it was clarified that the salesmen weren't as desperate as the farmers trying to buy the cars. What is ignored by this arguement, is that even if they aren't as desolate, they make be on the brink of financial disaster. Ensydeout's quote from the novel also supports this by highlighting on the feeling of desperation and Gavin's quote regarding the shack that the car lot was run out of really supports the argument that everyone had hard times, even the car company.
Wow. This whole chapter is just filled with outrageous scenes that make me feel extremely nervous to go to a car lot now. (kind of like The Fast Food Nation book we had to read over the summer...) Anyways, the scene that just made want to yell at the saleman (the most, anyways) was the one in which the saleguy is trying to explain to the others the best way to bag a sale: go after the woman. As a female myself, this just made that whole scene jump out at me.
I believe that it was Sarah who pointed this out in her post, and I think it deserves a repeat here, "Frequently, women pay less attention to the ability of a car to function and more to its style and outward appearance, this is not to say that all women did this, or that they weren't intelligent." (Direct quote from Sarah's blog) In most cases, it is true that women pay more attention to the outside rather than the inside. As long as it is a pretty little package, the women agreed, and the sale was completed.
I agree with Emily, the cars are described in a dreary way. The image of rusty, broken down, automobiles sitting in a dry, dusty car lot sets the tone for the chapters. I see the corrolation between the dust and the cars also.
In chapter 7 the scene that I thought was the most intresting was the scene where the sales person sold a car to guy even though he only had 50 dollars. The salesman went out on a limb to help out the man in need. The rest was to be payed back and the guy signed a contract saying he would do so. Most likely he will never pay back the money and the sales man would have to know that.
In response to Jessica, I disagree with the fact that the salesmen were like sharks. I say this because of the one kind salesman who made a deal with the man in need.
" Get 'um under obligations. Make 'em take up your time... People are nice, mostly. They hate to put you out. Make 'em put you out, an' then sock it to 'em"
Manipulating peoples kindness for your own benefit is a horrible thing. The reason I believe so is because it teaches people to become bitter in order to protect themselves.
I like the question of whether the salesmen were justified in acting the way they did in order to survive. Lindsey's Quote, "Piles of rusty ruins against the fence, rows of wrecks in back, fenders, grease-black wrecks, blocks lying on the ground and a pig weed growing up through the cylinders.", does not show that the salesmen were as bad off as the farmers, it shows that they chose to care more about their money they could make bumming cars to people instead of actually focusing on selling high quality cars. That junk is what the salesmen put in their cars and sold to the poor farmers. So, it may seem that the salesmen are just as bad off because they appear to be poor because of their surroundings, but I would guess that if this were reality and not just a book that the salesmen chose to look that way because they are miserly and tidying up a bit would be a waste of their time and precious money.
I also agree with Jessica Sheahon about the salesmen being like sharks trying to attack their prey. This is fine imagery, not to mention, exactly the scenario during the Dust Bowl. Jessica also mentioned when the salesmen wanted to rip off customers by selling them inadequate forms of transportation. I also agree with Rachel Peoples statement about the salesmen ripping off customers by having a bargain on the platform, but claiming it to be sold when customers inquire about it. In the end, it seems that during the Dust Bowl, your life depended upon your craftiness. The salesmen in this chapter fully validate this statement.
The imagery that comes to mind is two salesmen peering out a dusty window at old cars and desperate families trying to escape the setting that they are in. It feels as though they are watching from afar, like a vulture would watch a dying animal. When they see a family that is especially desperate, they go ahead and start to break them down and cheat them. Although the Dust Bowl was an (to say the least) especially unprofitable and desperate time for most. For these characters, it was a good thing. They probably never had so much income in their business's lifespan. Instead of being the least bit thankful for their business, they decide to take it a step further and drain as much money from these pitiful people as possible.
I agree with Allo's post that we forget that the salespeople were desperate figures as well. I had not thought of this myself. Not only were farmers suffering in this era, but the entire country was. The Great Depression's effects were still lingering. The old cliche "desperate times call for desperate measures" comes to mind. In the car business at the time, it was hard to make a profit because of the lack of money circulating in the area, therefore the salepeople had to take another route besides the honest one.
I agree with Kyle, because it shows the greed in the salesmen, and how they think only of themselves.
The scene that stands out is when Joe put sawdust in the gears of the Chevvy. This shows how sneaky the salesmen are, and how they did not care about anything but a profit.
"Now, look here. I'm givin' you my shirt, an' you took all this time...I'm disgusted. Yeah, sign right there...We'll give him gas."
The salesmen are guilting customers into buying jalopies. Abusing the human compassion of certain people in order to sell a car shows how desperate people were during the Dust Bowl. They were willing to stoop so low as to scold "rude" customers for wasting their time, then trick them into buying junk. To top it all off, they give them "free" gas to go along with the "deal." Although the salesmen were desperate to make money for themselves, they took complete advantage of the desperate automobile-seekers, whose morals had survived the desperation, unlike the salesmen.
Travis said it best when he said that abusing kindness is wrong because it makes people bitter. Taking advantage of honest, devoted people will only lead them to become resentful.
Ethan's point about the "insignificance" of the torn seat cushions to the operation of the car is a logical one. It shows how ignorant some buyers were, and, once again, points out how greedy and dishonest the salesmen were.
The image that i found most appalling was when the salesmen try to take advantage of an old man. "Jim, corral that old bastard on the sidewalk. Don't know his ass from a hole in the ground."
The greed of these car dealers knows no boundaries. They're so desperate to make a buck they stoop to tricking an elderly man into purchasing a worthless vehicle.
"... Got anything to trade?
Got a pair of mules I'll trade.
Mules! Hey Joe hear this? This guy wants to trade mules. Didn't nobody tell you this the machine age? They don't uses mules for nothing but glue no more." The poor farmer stands shamefully alongside his outdated relic of a mule as his sharpdressed fast talking assailent mocks his ability to stick to the times. This is a constant throughout Steinback's novel. The end of manual labor produced by the sweat and strain of living beings and the coming of cold souless machines to take their places. As history has shown it is essentially for one's existense to always maintain a constant state of progress. For if that being should lag they will surely perish.
Also I agree with Jordan. The hypocracy of the salesman's comments are absoluste absurdity. For him to have the audacity to suggest it was farmers who were conning would be laughable if not so disconcerning.
Chapter 7 is a chapter that takes you out of the story and into reality. I am not trying to repeat everyone else, but the ultimate image in this chapter is how the salesmen cheated the poor farmers just for their own benefit. These salesmen were selfishly attacking the farmers, and ripping everything possible from them just to make a sale. Althought this makes them seem like horrible people i would have to agree with Allisons statement about the salesmen being as desperate as the Farmers. Everyone was effected by the Depression so you had to do whatever just to get by. I know that farmers were vulnerable, but maybe they should have realized they were not the only ones in need.They were not the only ones in need of desperate measures during desperate times.
Several people seem to be responding to Jordan's comment abou the disgusting attempts of the salesman trying to sell a car to the innocent, impoverished souls. However, I interpret the scene differently. I see a desperate salesman frantically attempting to get rid of a car, thereby enabling him to feed his family. During the Dust Bowl and the Great Depression everyone was struggling, not just the penniless farmers. This scene is not one of greed, but of desperation from both parties.
Although the salesman appear to be "villanous" according to Emily and Jessica, they are merely trying to make a living like everyone else in this novel. They simply choose to do it in a more aggressive fashion. During the Great Depression people were trying to make as much money any way they could, the car salesman just tried to make a larger profit in a very just business. The truth is that the car salesman was taking advantage of the situation more than he was taking advantage of the people and he was trying to survive.
The images that was ironic to me was the details of the rusty and decaying cars that most of the okies would sell their soul for. I think it is sad that they had to spend their whole life savings on a huck of medal. I also agree with Molly talking about all the signs that fooled the families with the Good used cars.
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